“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.” — Joseph Goebbels, Nazi Propaganda Minister
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.” — Joseph Goebbels, Nazi Propaganda Minister
I am shocked that fully three and a half hours later this hasn’t turned into a flaming troll war.
Why is that?
Generally speaking, you posted an article of questionable reference and strong opinion to a group of people many of whom you know for a fact will be inclined to disagree with the author at varying levels of enthusiasm, i.e., trollbait.
The reasons I didn’t take the bait include: most people feel the same was as I do and it’s not worth the energy to rant about the “lie” of homosexuality not being anywhere close to Nazi Germany’s lie. I also really don’t want to get into all the genetic, biological, and physiological data explaining homosexuality, which would imply that the people who are lying are in Pete’s camp. Their lie still doesn’t even compare to Nazi Germany’s lie though; there is no comparison between the two but it’s too long a rant to explain why.
Let’s paint a simple picture.
Sherman, set the wayback machine to the 1950’s. We see no wealthy gay conspirators. If you’re a homosexual in an executive position, you keep your mouth shut, perhaps even participating in the cigar-smoking, faery-bashing machismo in the executive steam room. You probably get married as is expected of you. Your marriage isn’t particularly passionate, but perhaps you share a good measure of respect and caring and raise a family.
Meanwhile, there’s a large subculture of men living double lives, secretly going to bars where others like them congregate. They can’t take their lovers home. They can’t introduce them to friends. They might want a real relationship with someone like them, but they can’t have one. For the straight man, bar-hopping and having one-night stands with dozens of women over the space of a year is just one choice among many. For the gay man, it was the only possible outlet, and such men who would prefer a real relationship settled, perhaps in shame, for much the same.
There was no educational machine or institution to make these men gay, and many of them didn’t want to be. But there were lots of them. Many wrote books about how they lived in constant fear and torment. Others treated it like a disease and unsuccessfully went in for shock treatments and hormone therapy.
I understand and resonate with your concerns about explicit government sanctioning of gay culture. What’s more, I refuse to debate this issue with you. I’m just painting a simple picture and hoping you might not be so shocked at the fact that not all of us want the 50’s back.
Hitler & co. did not “invent” your notion of the “Big Lie” (it’s been used before). He just capitalized on what the non-Jews, non-Gypsies, non-homosexuals, etc., etc.–the majority in German-speaking countries–already wanted to believe anyway. When things don’t go according to plan, people often desperately look for scapegoats.
Thus, the Big Lie, to be most effective, includes three elements:
1. An huge, colossal lie – not a believable lie.
2. Constant repetition to a mass audience.
3. Suppression of the truth through a climate of fear.
Sounds like certain religions to me. ;)
Pete, a discussion requires active effort and understanding and deliberating over the underlying assumptions of all positions. Finding an article you agree with (regardless of content) and waving it is not a valid discussion method, and actually amounts to a slap in the face. I know you don’t realize that, so I don’t hold it against you.
Anyways, I’m sure you found the obvious subtext of comparing Nazis and homosexual sympathizers amusing. Hahahah, heh. hrm.
IMHO, there are 2 reason why this hasn’t become a flame war.
1) People who invoke Nazis automatically lose. Corollary to Godwin’s Law
2) The article has a serious logical flaw. It assumes the reader will take on faith that the “big lie” is in fact a lie without any attempts to justify that assertion. If the article actually dedicated so much as a word to trying to prove its underlying assertion, this would be a flaming troll war.
If you think you have evidence supporting the assertion that no people have an inherent, unlearned preference for same-sex intimacy, (or as it’s more commonly stated, ‘Homosexuality is a choice’) I’d be more than willing to discuss it with you.
1) People who invoke Nazis automatically lose. Corollary to Godwin’s Law
As somebody who has had Godwin invoked on him while actually discussing World War II, I have a firm desire to hit you with a baseball bat.
That strikes me as a pretty blatant exception to the corollary.
Well, the article is very targeted toward people who already agree with them. I don’t think it’s designed to move people to their side. I just linked to it since I found it interesting.
The reason I believe that homosexuality is a choice is that people choose to leave it. There are several Christian organizations that help people leave the lifestyle of homosexuality. (Two that I know off are Stephen Bennett Ministries and Exodus International, and I believe there are more.) If it can be a choice to stop, it seems like it must be a choice to start.
It seems possible that there’s some genetic inclination for some people which may be stronger than others. If so, I suspect it’s like the obesity gene: There are people with the gene who are not obese, and people without it who are. Some people may struggle with homosexuality more than others, but when it’s all said and done, it’s their own decision.
Haha, I don’t see you losing weight. ;)
(Honestly, you’ve earned this one.)
Heh :)
I’m not perfect; I’m just forgiven.
Well, when someone makes an invalid analogy, I can’t not point out how silly they’re being.